AtsumaKarin356,830 (219,810)England

Working on a Sunday. Bleh. :/ Oh well, I suppose I get Tuesday off to make up for it...

AtsumaKarin has won 6,191 Trophies in 267 games

Registered on 30 Oct 13 | Last visited Yesterday | Last scanned yesterday at 23:33 by TT Pro Scanner

Level 48.88 (35.18)48.88 (35.18)

AtsumaKarin's Blog (11 followers)

Apr
17
PermalinkAre fun and trophies an impossible mix?
Introduction



So I've had this bubbling around in my head for some time now so I figured, why not post a short(ish) blog about it? smile

If you cast your gaze to pretty much any trophy thoughts thread on t'interwebs, you will usually see the following things come up:

"No Plat No Buy"

"Shame this game doesn't have a Plat but I'll give it a go anyway"

"Look at all those Gold trophies! Gonna get it for an easy Plat!"

"Remember a time when people actually played the game for fun instead of pointless trophies?"

This is just a summary of the many differing posts you'll see but it pretty much works out the same on every thread, doesn't it?

Of course, for the purpose of this blog, I'll be focusing on that last quote right there but the other quotes can also be applied to this topic in a way as well.



Trophies = Not fun?



So this kinda confuses me, in all honesty. The amount of times I'll see people say that they play the games just for fun as opposed to going for trophies. Maybe it's an unintentional thing but this heavily implies, if nothing else, that going for trophies CAN'T be fun. That it supersedes the joy of playing the game if you *do* go for trophies.

Why does it?

In order to come to a reasonable conclusion, I shall now tackle both sides of this argument. smile



Trophies ARE fun!



Speaking for myself, of course: I'm a completionist at heart and always have been LOOOOOOOOOOOOOONG before trophies/achievements ever became a thing. Trophies/achievement are a means of publicly showing how far you've got in a game and what feats you've accomplished. Often they'll include getting 100% in a game.

So when I got 100% in a game before they existed, I wasn't having fun? That's what that line of logic would imply to me.

Quite often as well, they also encourage you to try things out in games that you would NEVER have done without them. Things like playing as a bad guy if you normally play as a good one (or vice versa, indeed), seeing multiple endings or beating a game on Hard mode without dying (though granted, I would've done this on a few occasions...), without trophies/achievements, you might not really see the point of doing so, esp. how big our gaming backlogs seem to be getting these days...

Trophies/achievements offer a means to further expand the fun you can have with a game and also might give you an appreciation for a game you might not have had otherwise.

They can feel rewarding to get if you go for difficult ones and equally, can be quite gratifying if you knock out a few quick and easy ones in a matter of hours. smile

Looking at some of the completions I have, without trophies, I doubt I would ever have got:

Trials of the Blood DragonMark VIThe Mark VI trophy in Trials of the Blood Dragon worth 460 pointsGet an "A+" Grade in all main story levels


for example, I would have beaten the game and found the secrets/stickers but probably, that would've been it because I'd effectively 100%'d the game and I didn't like the game enough to do it otherwise but by having that to aim for, I actually found that I *did* enjoy it in the end, well, apart from Level 24, that one was a bitch. :P

Equally, there are many good, if not great games I've played that I would likely never have even considered without having trophies to show for it, such as Lara Croft GO Trophies, Color Guardians Trophies and even something like The HD Adventures of Rotating Octopus Character (Vita) Trophies (though ignore the 5 star rating I gave it, that was back when I rated games differently, will correct that at some point). :P

Of course, it's not all positive, so let's look at the other side of the argument.



Trophies are NOT fun!



So while trophies can offer more replay value, equally, this can actually turn out to be a negative.

For example: many games will have some truly boring trophies on offer, often, they'll be a grind to get.

Now, in the JRPG genre, I would say that this is largely OK, heck, even a borderline necessity because most of them will require you to do some at some point, mainly in the post-game, so why not include some shiny trophies to show that you put the work in?

However, there are many games that have truly arbitrary grinds aimed at artificially extending the gameplay. They can range from having to play a certain number of hours (not usually so bad as you can idle those) to getting so many kills with x weapons and whatnot.

It can also be a massive problem when the game doesn't actually tell you how many you've reached, this sadly happens with an annoying level of frequency and I wish that devs would start to add stats in as a standard. angry

In any case, the worst one I've personally done, however was:

Surge Deluxe (Vita)Grinder ManThe Grinder Man trophy in Surge Deluxe (Vita) worth 62 pointsExplode 100,000 blocks! Will not unlock in puzzle mode.


The game itself is alright, quite fun for a while, actually, until you go for this trophy, then you realise just how flawed the design of the game actually is...

The reason being that the scoring is so heavily reliant on the frenzy waves or w/e they're called and there's RNG in there also (another scourge of gaming which should just NOT happen in supposedly skill-based games but that's for another discussion...), which effectively means that if you don't get the rub of the green, you WON'T get the highscores because eventually, it gets that bit too quick to realistically handle on a consistent basis.

This effectively renders the idea of going for a LB score a futile exercise because instead of it being 90% skill, 10% luck minimum (like it should be), it's pretty much the other way around.

So that trophy was not only boring to go for and gave NO indication of how far I'd progressed with it but also isolated the flaws of the game too.

Probably the most obvious negative, however, is that people can get obsessed/addicted to getting them.

In order to get the most trophies, you would have to buy a LOT of games and play a LOT of rubbish ones just for that rush of easy points/Platinums.

So obviously if you have an *actual* addiction, it could be a problem but even if you're obsessed (which I'll admit, I am a bit :P), then instead of playing games you actually like/normally would, you might find that actually, you end up playing a lot of games that you DON'T like just for trophies, which is where the bone of contention lies for many non-trophy hunters for sure, I think.

Why else would people play games like Orc Slayer (EU) Trophies, Eekeemoo - Splinters of Dark Shard (EU) and games like My Name is Mayo Trophies even exist without trophies? Or certainly, they wouldn't sell that well by and large.

Finally: online trophies, 'nuff said. laugh

OK, OK: there are some trophy hunters no doubt who will like them but I've yet to meet any of them. :P

Most people in my experience HATE online trophies, trophy-hunters and non-trophy hunters alike because they mostly get boosted (meaning people can't play the game properly), force you to play/co-ordinate with other people (not everyone is a socialite) and worst of all, they become unobtainable when servers are closed.

It also doesn't help that often, they're arbitrary grind-fests as well so needless to say, I don't like them and wish that, besides MP only games, they'd either stop putting them in or make it obtainable in another way, esp. for when the servers go.




Conclusion



So I think that sums it up. Of course, this is subjective on my part and we all have our own views but I just don't see why trophies in themselves can't be fun and why if you're not going for them, you're playing the game: "just for fun", I feel like that's a bad way of wording it, though IDK how else you would so I do see the dilemma there.

This blog kinda came about because tbh, I get sick and tired of the threads I mentioned at the start. So many people are so eager to tell people how they should and shouldn't spend their free time with their hobby and it's getting annoying frankly lol.

The way I play is kind of a mix of the 2 ideas: trophies DO matter to me in many respects, esp. when trying to decide on a game so if I'm unsure about 2 games, one has a Plat and one doesn't and they're both about the same price, then why would I pick the one that doesn't have one? My backlog is large and time is limited so I don't think it's unreasonable to potentially shun games that don't have them.

If, however, I REALLY want the game, I'll get it regardless of the trophy list but if people want to decide what games they play based on the list, then that's up to them, not my (or anyone else's) place to tell them how to spend their time.

The main thing is that you enjoy whatever it is you do. If you want a load of easy trophies, go for it, if you're all about that TT ratio, go for it, if you won't play a game because of unobtainables, go for it, if you play a game regardless of trophies altogether, then just damn well do it and enjoy it, don't tell everyone that they should play games the same way as you, we're all different and enjoy different things, embrace that instead of trying to make us into you V2 please. wink

I think that about covers it! I hope you enjoyed reading that pretty long waffle there.

So what do you think? Have trophies/achievements changed our gaming habits for the better or worst? Are they fun or not? I'd love to hear your thoughts in the comments! toast
Posted by AtsumaKarin on 17 April 17 at 15:39
Slayer1189 Trophies are fun
Pretty much agree with everything you say in this section. I would add that challenges such as the Trials trophy have existed forever, such as three heart Zelda runs, Low% Metroid and the great white mage challenge in Final Fantasy.

All that has changed is that the developer created the challenge and attached a trophy to it. Even developer created challenges existed before like the challenge lists in Ratchet & Clank.


Trophies are NOT Fun
Again, I pretty much agree with your points here. Grindy trophies to pad a game are terrible, though that is a problem with the idiots who thought it wise to include them rather than the trophy system itself, same goes for online trophies.

With regard to addiction/obsession, I would say this is THE major negative to trophies. have seen people change their approach to gaming as they become more obsessed and the negative impact it pretty much always has.

Again, though I wouldn’t put the blame of this at the feet of the trophy system as people have suffered gaming addiction and obsession since gaming existed. Back in the 80’s people would end up broke, not go to work because they needed to set the high score, or have their lives fall apart because they were addicted to an MMO. Trophies definitely feed into that nature for some people.

As for the games like Orc Slayer, Eekeemoo, My Name is Mayo etc. I have always played games like these. I have also always played short, easy games for a relaxing evening or a break from something else. Growing up I would raid my sisters games which is how I ended up completing a bunch of the old Disney titles as well as the odd Mary Kate and Ashley etc :D


Conclusion
I would say each gamer should approach trophies/achievements in a way that matches their playstyle without trophies. Obviously, there are many different types of gamers so one size does not fit all.

I play games the same way now as I did pre-trophies, so for me gaming is just as fun as it always has been (If I haven’t changed my approach, why would the outcome have changed?).

I do believe that people who change their approach because of the existence of trophies/achievements can end up sacrificing fun and their gaming ca become a burden. I have seen this happen to online and IRL friends and it rarely ends well!!!

All in all, I think people should just let others do what they want to with their time. For anyone wondering if trophies/achievements are affecting them negatively, I would ask yourself one question.

Would I have played this way before trophies existed? If your answer is no, is it really worth it?
Posted by Slayer1189 on 17 Apr at 17:09
ImperatorA3 Aha, somebody who uses Grinder Man as an example, knows what they're talking about clap

I don't understand why a talented developer like FuturLab could make such a stupid mistake. I even asked them on twitter (https://twitter.com/ImpA3/status/443788293315239936)

Another offender is BreakQuest: Extra Evolution (Vita), that has a trophy for 24 playhours. Game and all other trophies can be finished in ~12 hours, so that leaves the player with another 12 hours of play time. And of course there is no way to check how many hours one already has played.

Examples like these make me wish that developers would pay better attention on how they are implenting their trophies.

When trophies first were introduced, back in 2008, I was immediately interested, it entertained the completionist in me. Now almost 10 years and 8000 trophies later, I'm still hooked. It's also nice to have a sort of gaming diary that you can look at smile

Just my 2 cents toast
Posted by ImperatorA3 on 17 Apr at 21:30
Slayer1189 @ ImperatorA3 - Regarding what you say about it being nice to have a gaming diary to look at.

This is the key thing that attracts me to trophies and achievements. That it records your gaming history. I love lists and it appeals to me that trophies have chronicled my activity on PS consoles over the past few years. I still keep my personal lists up to date though in case Sony or the other big companies go bust :P
Posted by Slayer1189 on 17 Apr at 22:16
Kornfan2007 I played a lot of games I didn't enjoy or want to just for achievements. I did the boosting sessions for stupid amount of hours etc. Then I moved to PS4 and said I am not going to go for trophies at all. I couldn't shake it though. Within less than a week I had gone for the platinum and got it in Resogun. I did however get rid of the plan to get "easy trophies". If I play a game now, it is because it looks fun. Sometimes they are not great and I will push through to the end for the trophies usually. Sometimes I just abandon them though.

There are too many great games releasing now that I don't have time for, so I am not going to put obstacles in my way just to get quick trophies.

Unobtainables will put me off a game. I like the idea of being able to get them all, even if I can't do it. There are some genres I write off going for them all immediately. Mainly sports. I don't plan to get good enough to do the hardest difficulty etc, but I want to play them, so those I just play for fun.

All in all, I enjoy almost everything I play now. I only feel a time pressure to get through games if they are rented. That is due to paying for it each month I have it. Other than that, I just play what I feel like. Going on a rental holiday now though as I have built a backlog from the PSN sales. Fallen back in love with point and click games again so 7 of my backlog games are those. It was mainly Broken Sword 1 & 2 that I grew up with for my P&C love. Completed them a bunch of times each.
Posted by Kornfan2007 on 17 Apr at 23:43
takutoneko Thing I've seen time and time again..People who DID everything BEFORE trophies/achievements were introduced to the gaming structure are usually the ones who ENJOY that side of things more so than a person like me who's happy to just get whatever - I've always been like this.

I'm not much of a player who enjoys online unless it's co-op and I know that person really well. I've spent time online with unknown players mostly in MMO's and there is LOTS of childish people out there besides actual children behaving in a manner of god I don't know..laugh

I had a period on the 360 where I tried to complete all my games..It didn't last long though...But I had a simple rule of finishing ALL Lego games and nearly all WP games. I got one achievement simply to piss someone off...laugh Because I knew they could never get it and most people HADN'T got the achievement cause it's a stupidly long, long grind. Yes, kinda childish I know..redface

I've done super long grinds in games mostly because I know the achievement/trophy will be easy enough to get...But in saying that I pretty much grind every week in GoW to make my cards better and to obtain everything I need to hopefully build a powerful PVP team.

I never really caught the 'bug' of boosting achievements/trophies..I rarely did it. I'd simply play my games and ask my co-op buddy if we could get certain achievements/trophies..If I got them then great and if I didn't then no worries.

The bigger picture is everyone enjoys gaming for different reasons. Whatever makes them enjoy the game is really all that matters. People who deprive themselves of a game because it doesn't have a plat/1k CAN actually play the game on ANOTHER account so it just doesn't muck up their score IF that's what they really care about. So to me the argument on that is completely moot. However, people love to complain a lot so it'll never stop. I just chose to not read those posts and move on.
Posted by takutoneko on 18 Apr at 00:34
UlvenFenrir its the same people who "retire" from trophy hunting. Their approach to the whole thing is shit and theyre doing it wrong hence why they lose motivation and saying that trophies ruin games.

The reason why i dont lose motivation is because i do it for ME and no one else. This is my own challenge and my fun and i love doing it.

Like you said, going for 100% in the past is no different to collecting trophies. Also the people who say trophies are meaningless, well... theyre only so meaningless as you make them. Its like saying online leaderboards are meaningless because all they consist of is virtual points just like trophies.
Posted by UlvenFenrir on 18 Apr at 11:16
AtsumaKarin Thanks for the comments so far, guys, some interesting reading here! toast

Slayer1189: You make a good point about those other challenges indeed, many of those kind of things are also in the trophy/achievement system! smile

Yep, some people should not be allowed to make trophy lists. :P

Indeed, addiction was, is and likely will be a problem as long as our Human Condition remains. People are all too eager to pin the blame on the artform rather than the individual. Indeed, some people do lose their lives over whatever it is and that's sad to see for sure. cry

I guess morbid curiosity is a wonderful thing, eh? The trophy/achievement system has definitely broadened my horizons with the games I'll try out so if nothing else, I'm thankful to it for that! smile

ImperatorA3: Indeed, I was surprised by FuturLab as well as they're arguably one of the best indie devs out there in virtually every respect, at least of the ones I know.

I don't know much about that game but I have heard about it from one of my other friends and yes, it's really silly to have a trophy like that that requires more game time when most people will have accomplished everything else much sooner. :(

I was immediately interested as well! Such a great addition to the gaming world imo, though I know some disagree. No reason you *have* to go for them, though, heck, just turn off trophy notifications/hide them if they bother you so much, no need to ruin other people's fun because of it.

Kornfan2007: As I said to you before, I kinda went the other way around. Started off only really going for the more challenging ones (mainly XBLA) plus of the games I would've played, now, almost anything goes! laugh

I wouldn't be doing it if I didn't enjoy it, though. For better or worse, I'll play them crappy, easy games as long as my patience holds out! laugh

I hate it when I abandon games. Esp. if I'd already spent a lot of time on them and ultimately never even finished the story (Rainbow Moon and Resonance of Fate (on 360) are the 2 main culprits) but it started with Fire Emblem: Path of Radiance on the Gamecube, I got the 360 and abandoned that at ~Chapter 24 or so. :(

Indeed, unobtainables put me off as well, though I do sometimes get them in the hope that they'll get patched. Still waiting on Cast of The Seven Godsends and a couple of others to be patched but the way Sony runs their certification process, I doubt we'll ever see them. cry

Point and Click games are great! I'll have to get to the other Broken Sword games as I adored 5! smile
Posted by AtsumaKarin on 18 Apr at 12:29
AtsumaKarin takutoneko: you make a good point there for sure! People who really were more casual gamers probably can't get their head around it in much the same way I don't understand why people will watch a sport where most of the time, they're faffing about setting up to bowl and very little actual playing is done in the time a match goes on for (Cricket, in case you were wondering). :P

That's the beauty of life, though, some people will enjoy it, others won't, same with trophies. no need to eradicate them just because some/many don't like it else we wouldn't have many pastimes to choose from, would we? smile

I'm the same with online...VERY reluctant to play online with randoms these days, besides for the obvious reasons, I've seen instances where people have unwittingly joined hacked lobbies and had the trophies auto-pop for them. cry

Ooh, what is that grindy achievement that annoyed your friend? wink

I've done quite a few (probably too many, tbh) grinds in my gaming life since trophies/achievements were invented and mostly, haven't overly hated them...only a few occasions, one being the one I mentioned in the blog and another being Endless Mode in Bejeweled 2.

150+ hours of gem-matching only to have the achievement not unlock...priceless. facepalm

Yeah, not too keen on boosting either, have done it a few times and it can be kinda fun in the right company, though!

Good point about the alt. acc! I'm too lazy to do that myself, though, would rather just go with the flow a bit in that respect. Good alternative at the very least for playing games with unobtainables, though it would also mean less time on your main achieving world domination...or something. laugh

UlvenFenrir: indeed, friendly competition/rivalry is great but when they treat it like a career (which isn't true for all but the top .01% or so), then it is a bit silly. :P

Same here! toast

Agreed on the LB point as well, I used to love going for World #1 spots back on XBLA and quite frequently did too! smile
Posted by AtsumaKarin on 18 Apr at 12:44
Slayer1189 I like that pretty much everyone in the comments seems to agree, which mean I think we hit the nail on the head.

Those who treat trophies like a career, change their approach to gaming or earn trphies to impress others end up getting burned out and disliking trophies.

Those who continue to play in a way that suits them as they always have done, earning trophies for their own gratification continue to enjoy the hunt smile
Posted by Slayer1189 on 18 Apr at 16:39
biff_beefcake For me trophies are a nice addition to gaming. As others mentioned, I like the fact that it represents your "gaming history" in a way and it's kind of a list of memories. I've always been the kind of person who goes after in-game challenges, 100%s, min/max playthroughs and other self-imposed challenges with my favourite games so I guess it shouldn't surprise me that I'm into trophies. laugh

There are some challenges that I wouldn't have attempted if there weren't a trophy attached to it, but to be honest it's really expanded my horizons when it comes to the types of games I'm open to. I may never have bothered with all the mini games in 3D Dot Game Heroes if it weren't for the trophies, and through it I discovered that I LOVE Tower Defense games! Would I have bothered with some of the more difficult challenges in games if there were no trophy? Probably not. But man, that rush when you nail it is awesome! It's a nice reminder to myself that I can still learn to do things that are out of my comfort zone. :) To be honest, I've never cared whether a game has a platinum trophy or not and to me a bronze is as good as a gold since completionist me is going to try to get them all anyway.

Another weird positive that trophies have had on my gaming is that I now have a sense of when I'm done with something and it lets me mentally move onto something else. In some games you will naturally just run out of things to do, so that's not a problem for me... it's the open-ended games where you can essentially play forever that have kind of ensnared me in the past. I played Harvest Moon Sunshine Islands for YEARS because my mind for some reason couldn't come to a "let's just stop here" point. I guess it's not a big deal if I was having fun, but when I've pretty much done everything at the end of 200 hours, why on earth did I play for 2000+ more? I could have used that time to play loads of other games and maybe I'd be looking back fondly on a dozen neat experiences instead of just one. It's so simple now: enjoy the game, finish the trophy set and then move on. I'd still be stuck turning all the caves into neat stone-lined boxes in Terraria or mining out every single last ore in a Minecraft map if the completion of the trophy set didn't let me just let it go.

On the flip side, I've also put up with games I haven't liked just to finish the trophy set and get the game out of my sight (looking at you, Sly 3). And there's also the problem where unfinished games in my trophy card mentally sit in my "to do list" (sometimes for years!) until I get back to them, whereas without trophies I could have just simply forgotten about them. But I still think that the positives for me massively outweigh the negatives. To each their own way of playing! toast
Posted by biff_beefcake on 18 Apr at 16:59
A_Tennis_Giraffe Like many of you, I can see both sides to the argument. For me, I'm still not really sure whether or not trophies/achievements have helped or hindered me. Both I think maybe?

Whilst I used to always try and 100% games back when I was a kid, I think now having trophies/achievements to go for gives me extra motivation to see a game through to the end and play every aspect of it.
However...the reason I think they've hindered me also is because, depending on what the list is, I now find myself doing certain things that I would never have done pre-achievements. Like what I'm doing right now - idling all day in a damn lobby trying to find a race on MXGP so I can get the final trophy and platinum. Would I be doing that without a trophy dangling at the end? No I wouldn't. Am I having fun doing it? No I'm not.

I do have my limits though, and some trophies I rule out before even starting a game because I know I'm not going to be good enough or I'm simply not prepared to put in the work required. I don't need to 100% EVERY game that I play, but I find I need to do the very best I can on it. Sometimes as I said it gives me motivation to experience everything the game has to offer, but sometimes this leads to 1 game taking up too much time I could have used playing through 10 other games.

I sometimes find myself avoiding certain games because I don't like the trophy list too which I hate. I am trying to stop being like this and just tell myself to just get what I can on it and enjoy it. It's hard though because I like to get at least 85% on everything I play facepalm

I won't buy games though simply for trophies unless I have some sort of interest in them. If I'm on the fence about something then an easy set of trophies might encourage me to buy the game and play it, whereas an awful list will deter me. I have discovered some hidden gems because I took a punt when I saw an easy completion, but I did have to have interest to begin with.

I'm still not sure exactly where I stand on the debate though - some days I'm glad they exist and I enjoy gaming more because of them, and other days I wish they didn't and I could just play whatever I want whenever I want without having this worry of completing a game before I move on. Depends what mood I'm in I think! And MXGP has got me in an irritated mood lately angry LOL.

Overall though, I do like having a "Gaming Diary" as someone called it above. I guess back before having this my "Gaming Diary" was a collection of all my game saves!
Posted by A_Tennis_Giraffe on 19 Apr at 04:02
AtsumaKarin Slayer1189: don't think I have any more to add, perhaps that should've been the whole blog instead? Would've saved us all some time. laugh

biff_beefcake: indeed, the gaming history thing I didn't really mention in it, though by extension, the publicity of it does kinda allude to it a bit but it really is nice to have that record for sure! smile

Me too! Quite a few nice surprises that I just would never have considered otherwise. Of course, there are some turds to be found as well (I've probably (hopefully) played most of them now...) but otherwise, we'd all just be playing the CoDs, Battlefields, Naughty Dog games mostly and while there's nothing wrong with doing that, it would be kinda dull if that's all we had to talk about, wouldn't it?

I do read into the grade of the trophy more than most, probably. I do have a greater sense of satisfaction the higher the grade, probably why I'm so into my Gold Rush Plats! laugh

One thing I will say, though is while I do love those, it is a bit nonsensical that so many exist, equally, that so many stinky All Bronze No Plat games do, I just think: "what's the point of a grade system if everything from starting the game to a hardcore no death speedrun gives you the same reward?" ya know?

Ultimately, as a completionist, I will also get them if patience/skill (though rarely that's an issue for me :P) permits.

That's something else I've thought of as well, it can serve as a good stopping point indeed! Equally, it can also give you an idea of how much time to invest to get the most out of it, provided the list is solid.

Something like Everything (that's weird to word it like that), laugh I might not have played past, IDK, the first hour because I suppose really, even though there is a lot to see and I liked it a lot, there's no tangible end point so it can get repetitive quickly without some sort of guide, as it were. Probably one of the few occasions I would say trophies really did make a difference to the overall experience, though that experience would still be good without them!

Wow, 2,000 hours?!?!?!?!?!? You were HARDCORE! rock

Indeed, I do sometimes think that way for lengthier completions (esp. JRPGs), I adore those for sure but I could be playing a few shorter games that could be just as good, if not possibly better (though that seldom turns out to be the case imo, what with it being my favourite genre). It's a balancing act, though and ultimately, you just have to do what you can with the time you have available.

Aww, you didn't like Sly 3? I loved all of them, story-wise, I'd say it's possibly the best one as I really liked how it tied it up in the last level and made the team appreciate each other more despite everything that had happened to them.

Though I think Sly 2 was overall the best one, esp. with the plot twist near the end, albeit it was a bit bizarre.

For purity, though, Sly 1 would get my vote! 4 was still great but not as good but was made by a different team, I believe. Still can't believe I bought that literally a couple of days before it was announced as a PS+ game, though. facepalm That taught me to be more careful about it, let me tell you!
Posted by AtsumaKarin on 19 Apr at 11:29
AtsumaKarin A_Tennis_Giraffe: I think it *has* altered how we game in some ways, whether we want to admit it or not but it really is all down to ones attitude about it whether it helps or hinders, I think.

The whole not having fun thing, I thought of a way to look at it: before trophies/achievements, have you enjoyed 100% of your time playing any game, even if they're amongst your favourites? Same goes with movies/TV/books? If you enjoy going for trophies (or getting them as a by-product of 100%), how does it differ from the above?

There will always be highs and lows of playing games, regardless of whether virtual points are attached to them. Even if you don't go for 100%, you might hate a level for one or 2 of the challenges (let's just say, everybody's favourite: water levels :P) but the rest of the game prior to that, you had a ball and you might miss out on even more moments like that or indeed the former and you'd never know if you stopped playing as soon as you stopped having fun every single time.

It's a similar kind of thing to me, you're not enjoying the experience of sitting in the lobby for hours but it's a part of the process towards seeing everything the game has to offer and completing it. IDK, maybe I'm not explaining it as well as I could but I hope you can glean my overall meaning from it somehow. wink

The only trophies I pretty much rule out are online ones (or unobtainable ones, I suppose) but everything else, I go into the mindset of thinking: "I'll give it my all to complete this game, no matter how insane it turns out to be". If ultimately, I find I'm not good enough (as I said earlier, rarely the case but it does happen), then I'll happily accept defeat and move on. It's usually a lack of commitment or patience on my part, though. redface

Yes, I do that as well re: avoiding games based on trophy lists but it's as I said in the main blog: time is limited, you can only play so much so you do have to pick and choose and sometimes, genuinely, the trophy list might be the only way to separate them, well, if you care about them, of course.

It's not just whether it has a Plat or not or even online, I find that the types of trophies can give something of an indication to how fun it could turn out to be. Sometimes, I've looked at the trophies and they've sounded really interesting and sold me on the game, actually!

I have bought games just for trophies/achievements (even excluding GTASC) and I likely will again. To kinda refer to Slayer's earlier post (was gonna address it sooner but didn't), where he said he'd played Mary Kate and Ashley, I've considered playing that Barbie Puppy Rescue game (seriously!), yes, it'd be utterly cynical but honestly, as a dog lover, I found the puppies really adorable and sometimes, games like that can surprise you and turn out to be decent and not merely a cash-in for the franchise.

You never know unless you try, after all! Not willing to pay the Earth for the privilege, though, that's one thing I won't do!

I will admit, I do get hung up on them as well sometimes the way you mentioned it there but for better and for worse, I'm happy that they exist! smile

I think Mr. Imperator has come up with a term that's captured everybody's imagination! dance
Posted by AtsumaKarin on 19 Apr at 11:50