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How Final is Final Fantasy XV?

AuthorMessage
ExtremePhobia
150,388
ExtremePhobia
Posted on 17 April 16 at 11:47
The Final Fantasy franchise is in a precarious spot

Please click here to read the story: How Final is Final Fantasy XV?
ExsphereBrawler
Posted on 17 April 16 at 15:56
While I have enjoyed most of the games after X, barring XII, I haven't enjoyed them as much. Many fans are already upset about the changes they've made with the VII remake, so chances are that won't do as well as they hope. I understand trying to appeal to a broader audience because that has potential to sell more but you can't just write off what your longtime fans have to say either. I hope they figure it out because this is a series I have enjoyed for some time.
KillerfoxUru
100,999
KillerfoxUru
Posted on 17 April 16 at 16:11
Quality article, congratulations.
ExtremePhobia
150,388
ExtremePhobia
Posted on 17 April 16 at 16:29
KillerfoxUru said:Quality article, congratulations.Thanks! Appreciate it!
ExtremePhobia
150,388
ExtremePhobia
Posted on 17 April 16 at 16:32
ExsphereBrawler said:While I have enjoyed most of the games after X, barring XII, I haven't enjoyed them as much. Many fans are already upset about the changes they've made with the VII remake, so chances are that won't do as well as they hope. I understand trying to appeal to a broader audience because that has potential to sell more but you can't just write off what your longtime fans have to say either. I hope they figure it out because this is a series I have enjoyed for some time.Agree on all accounts. I think the problem is that they raised the bar too high in the PS1 era, and I don't know if the "large audience" then is large enough to support their current AAA efforts. 10 million to be profitable is more than almost any FF except VII.
ExsphereBrawler
Posted on 17 April 16 at 16:57
Also a good point. That's why the episodic idea for the VII remake scares me. If things don't yield the kind of profit they hope for, will they just drop it? You never know. Like Killerfox said, quality article and definitely an interesting topic of conversation.
DragonessHera
330,317
DragonessHera
Posted on 17 April 16 at 17:00
You left out how Final Fantasy killed Squaresoft. The movie, Final Fantasy Spirits Within bankrupted the company because it did so poorly after pumping tons of money into it. They're repeating every single mistake they and the other failed company they bought (Eidos) made in the past. They wouldn't have to gamble so much on FF15 if they didn't bother with an anime or a movie. They really think this FF15 movie will bring in box office money, what with them hiring Hollywood actors to try and draw in the general non-gaming public (and yes, I know Sony is footing the bill with the movie, showing a lack of judgement on Sony's side since they helped with the first movie).
ExtremePhobia
150,388
ExtremePhobia
Posted on 17 April 16 at 17:57
Actually, as far as I'm aware, the movie is not going to see a theatrical release and is going to be free in some form or another.

Which I think helps. I see them making a lot of the same moves, but doing so in a different method. Rather than a stand alone movie, they are doing what people wanted with Spirit Within, which was tying it to the games. They are releasing all this content to before and to drive interest in the core product rather than drawing on pre-existing interest to make money.

I think Spirits Within was a more a symbolic failure than a financial one. It crushed the budding Square movie arm, but Square itself was fine. It lost about 50 million at the box office (so not counting retail sales), which isn't great, but after four of the most successful games in one of the most successful series of all time, I don't think they were hurting that much. In fact, the purpose of the merger with Enix (as I remember) was that Enix was successful in the East while Square was successful in the West.

It is a faschanting topic, especially since I think it's probably a much better movie than we gave it credit for (though I haven't rewatched it). I may have been able to work it in, but that would have been a detour that would have taken a lot of extra explaining. I actually spent a lot of time cutting back on parts where I just went off too far on a tangent like that which seemed to not add too much to what I was saying.
Gaelic-_-Flame
Posted on 17 April 16 at 18:22
To be honest FF XV is probably the first Final Fantasy game I'm excited for in awhile. I personally consider the best FFs to be FFV and VI. Everything after that I didn't enjoy as much, although most of them I didn't even bother playing, since I just don't like the transition to 3D for JRPGs. For some reason 3D JRPGs just don't seem as charming to me as old style 2D ones, but it's an entire different topic to discuss.

Having said that, it's still sad to admit that I'm excited for FF XV not because it looks like old FF game or anything. In fact it almost feels nothing like FF anymore. But it looks like a really great game so I'm pretty excited for it.
Gaelic Flame - Hybrid created from Rathalos and Kushala Daora materials. Its cut is a death sentence
BlueSeptember17
Posted on 17 April 16 at 19:26, Edited on 17 April 16 at 19:27 by BlueSeptember17
I quite hated The Spirits Within because
*** Spoiler - click to reveal ***
but Advent's Children was a great movie. The thing is, I don't look to Square or any other gaming company for movies; I want games. I love Final Fantasy VII-Final Fantasy X (I also love V), but part of what makes those games great for me is the consistency. I know that I've going to see Shiva and Ifrit and Bahamut. I know that the fighting will be turn-based, letting me spend more of my attention on the great story instead of the battle mechanics. FFX was the first Final Fantasy in which you could change characters mid-battle, and that was innovation enough for me. It was great! Then comes along FFXII, which I finished but didn't like that much (loved Basch though and Balthier and Fran to a lesser degree). The summons were all new and some pretty darn gross; the battle system stunk, and the randomness of trying to get something like the Zodiac Spear was insane. I tried to like FF XIII, I really did, but the story was so convoluted and hard to follow and Lightning wasn't even likable. Honestly, except for Snow and Fang, I found the characters forgettable. So I haven't paid any attention to XV. I'll just keep replaying my old ones.

Great, great article! toast
Nobody but you...
ExtremePhobia
150,388
ExtremePhobia
Posted on 17 April 16 at 20:09
I think the allure of FF movies was always how beautiful their cutscene were. I'm still open to it, for sure. I still love Square and will go on almost any ride they want to take me on (between 360 and PS3, I think I 1000/platinumed the entire XIII trilogy! inferior as it was). I have hope for Kingsglaive. They have made a solidly fun Final Fantasy movie, it just had a terribly contrived plot so they could put it in the VII storyline.

As for the XIII characters... I enjoyed Sazh, Snow was hard to dislike (Troy Baker can do that), and Fang was pretty awesome, especially in Lightning Returns. I found Lightning appealing for some reason. Don't know why. Realistically, she probably had more emotion than Cloud. It just seems like that's not the case because Cloud didn't have a voice actor, so I think it was easier to project more emotion onto him. She is kind of appealing in a Katniss or T-1000 kind of way wink
Harem-kamisama
Posted on 17 April 16 at 23:18
FFX was one of the best selling games in the series, and even got a sequel. X is often a popular pick for favorite FF game of all time, and I feel most people have it at least in their top five. Its with 12 that the series started to falter, and it was a seemingly assinie move to keep making sequels to the worst FF game ever , FF 13 that basically put the series where it stands now.

Also FF15 doesn't inspire much confidence. The whole bromance thing, the pandering to western crowds, the roadtrip montage, etc.

Square in generally has been a shell of its self since the merger with Enix, in addition to the miserable 13 games, we had the 14 debacle, the delay of versus, the delay of KH 3, abandonment of basically all their other properties, we just got a new star ocean, their focus on their crappy Eidos games, announcement of FF7 remake after over a decade.........as a multi episode game, etc.

I feel other series and publishers have long left square enix in the dust, at least in terms of jrpgs.
ExtremePhobia
150,388
ExtremePhobia
Posted on 18 April 16 at 00:39
Harem-kamisama said:FFX was one of the best selling games in the series, and even got a sequel. X is often a popular pick for favorite FF game of all time, and I feel most people have it at least in their top five. Its with 12 that the series started to falter, and it was a seemingly assinie move to keep making sequels to the worst FF game ever , FF 13 that basically put the series where it stands now.While that's true, I know a lot that would argue that FFX was the start of the decline. While it still maintained the turn based combat, it was a VERY linear experience. You can almost see the direct lines from X's linear style and XII's combat to XIII.

Here's the important part, however. A lot of people DO put XII as the first bad game, meaning people were pretty accepting of X's linear story. A lot of people enjoyed Kingdom Hearts very action oriented gameplay, a game with a following that (at least as far as I can see) was almost exclusively made up of Final Fantasy fans. The things that many people say are fundamental problems with Final Fantasy CAN work. The problem was not that they were implemented, but that they were implemented poorly.

The problem with XIII's linearity was that locations felt grand and empty. When spaces were filled with people, the people were largely empty shells. This is a stark contrast to X where even just the locations were dripping with character. (Aside: X also had arguably the best soundtrack of the series IMO, which helped a lot)

XIII's action based gameplay had the appearance of action, but restricted by turn based elements. Rather than leaving the RPG elements outside of combat (like KH did), and allowing the action to shine, the game ended up with a slow paced combat system masquerading as a fast paced system.

I feel other series and publishers have long left square enix in the dust, at least in terms of jrpgs.Sort of? There are only a few modern JRPGs that reach the heights of Final Fantasy 6-10, and they have been relative standouts. For instance, the Tales of series has been pretty hit or miss, though they have had a couple of great games since then. The kind of inspiration that comes from analyzing and competing against others has been relatively absent, and I think that's part of the reason that we saw such a decline for a while.

What I'm excited for is the future. The genre is seeing a resurgence, and the fact that we've got Final Fantasy XV and hopefully another main console title in Dragon Quest (currently scheduled for 2016) is fantastic. Persona is already running pretty high with most people, and Tales just needs another good solid game to be up there with them (I feel like their on the verge of finding their mass market). We could be in for an all time high for the genre as a whole (though I think VR may hinder that some, as that obviously works best with certain types of games).

Not that I think it's necessarily going to happen. That would be quite the convergence. But a guy can dream smile
Harem-kamisama
Posted on 18 April 16 at 04:18, Edited on 18 April 16 at 04:29 by Harem-kamisama
Ill be honest , while the gameplay was terrible, it was the story and characters that really killed 13. Sure you can cherry pick a few good characters, I do like Snow and Sazh, but I pretty much hate every other character starting with Lightining. And I don't even know how to dignify the mess of a story.

I will admit X changed the formula, I wasn't a fan of the leveling up system for example, but storywise it felt like a epic FF game. FF12 suffered from a change in direction, that said its still not bad, but I do feel like it is spilt pretty evenly from those who love it and those who hate it.

While not critically reaching those levels, in my opinion games like xenoblade chronicles, pandora's tower, last story, lost odyssey, tales of vesperia, persona 3-4 golden, disgaea 3-5, etc. live up to early FF games. Even non Japanese games like Child of Light have shined recently. Fire Emblem has also had a resurgence.

And then lets not forget the series that has manage to do what FF and Square Enix has always tried, make a proper western flavored Japanese RPG, the Souls series from From Software.

I wont disagree though that especially with tales its hit or miss. I love Symphonia, Vesperia, Phantasia, but feel like especially with Zestria the series sputtered.

Plus I am still bitter over that crap announcement of the VP mobile game. That said I do hope FF XV does well, but I wouldn't be surprised if it misses the mark.
MonkeyBrad91
393,442
MonkeyBrad91
Posted on 18 April 16 at 09:59
Harem-kamisama said:... in my opinion games like ... lost odyssey ... live up to early FF games. Even non Japanese games like Child of Light have shined recently.Lost Odyssey I think is my favourite game of the previous generation. Such an incredibly compelling story, enjoyable gameplay, and a vibrant setting. Child of Light I played recently, and while a bit barebones due to the low production value, I quite liked playing it with a friend (i was the annoying firefly ^_^) and almost story. The game was quaint.

On topic, I've only played FFX (and FFX-2), FFXIII (and FFXIII-2), and FFXIV. But I really loved all of them. FFX was, again, I think my favourite game of that generation, and one that I remember most happily playing growing up. FFX-2 had great music (1000 words, the visualised memories in the thunder plains, was the first time I cried playing a game) and badass female leads. FFXIII Had a few nice characters (Sazh ofc, and I quite liked Serah and Vanille too), and despite the convoluted story, I enjoyed the gameplay and world. I quite liked the battle system, though perhaps I'm too inexperienced with JRPGs to know better. FFXIII-2 I really liked; it was fun, unique, and they made Hope less of a whiny brat (thank Bhunivelze!). FFXIV (the remade A Realm Reborn, I should point out) I deposited a significant amount of time into, and loved it. They perfectly blended the cinematic, emotional stories of Final Fantasy with an MMO setting, and it worked perfectly. Felt a little grindy at times, but I suggest playing it for the story alone. Also, fat chocobo mount. HOW COULD YOU NOT!?

In regards to FFXV, I'm very interested in it. The footage I've seen shows a world with an epic scale. The adamantoise alone looks amazing, and daunting; how it should be! Very Monster Hunter-esque. The movement and battle system with the grapple is very interesting and I think could really open the game up if it's implemented correctly. Not wild for the characters or road trip thing yet, but I trust them to make the story draw the emotions out of me. Also, thumbs up for female Cid! I haven't bought a launch game in years, and I don't think this game will be the one to change that - but should it come at me for a reasonable price, I will 100% be buying it!

This was an interesting article to read; thanks for writing it up. :)
ExtremePhobia
150,388
ExtremePhobia
Posted on 18 April 16 at 11:10
Harem-kamisama said:Ill be honest , while the gameplay was terrible, it was the story and characters that really killed 13. Sure you can cherry pick a few good characters, I do like Snow and Sazh, but I pretty much hate every other character starting with Lightining. And I don't even know how to dignify the mess of a story....

Plus I am still bitter over that crap announcement of the VP mobile game. That said I do hope FF XV does well, but I wouldn't be surprised if it misses the mark.
I shortened for length, but I pretty much agree with everything you just said. I love Symphonia and Vesperia in particular (was trying to remember the name!), both belong in that pantheon. Also, good observation on Souls, I hadn't really thought of that (for some reason).

I love level headed discussions smile. Good luck XV!
ExtremePhobia
150,388
ExtremePhobia
Posted on 18 April 16 at 11:20, Edited on 18 April 16 at 11:20 by ExtremePhobia
MonkeyBrad91 said:Harem-kamisama said:... in my opinion games like ... lost odyssey ... live up to early FF games. Even non Japanese games like Child of Light have shined recently.On topic, I've only played FFX (and FFX-2), FFXIII (and FFXIII-2), and FFXIV. But I really loved all of them. FFX was, again, I think my favourite game of that generation, and one that I remember most happily playing growing up. FFX-2 had great music (1000 words, the visualised memories in the thunder plains, was the first time I cried playing a game) and badass female leads. FFXIII Had a few nice characters (Sazh ofc, and I quite liked Serah and Vanille too), and despite the convoluted story, I enjoyed the gameplay and world. I quite liked the battle system, though perhaps I'm too inexperienced with JRPGs to know better. FFXIII-2 I really liked; it was fun, unique, and they made Hope less of a whiny brat (thank Bhunivelze!). FFXIV (the remade A Realm Reborn, I should point out) I deposited a significant amount of time into, and loved it. They perfectly blended the cinematic, emotional stories of Final Fantasy with an MMO setting, and it worked perfectly. Felt a little grindy at times, but I suggest playing it for the story alone. Also, fat chocobo mount. HOW COULD YOU NOT!?

In regards to FFXV, I'm very interested in it. The footage I've seen shows a world with an epic scale. The adamantoise alone looks amazing, and daunting; how it should be! Very Monster Hunter-esque. The movement and battle system with the grapple is very interesting and I think could really open the game up if it's implemented correctly. Not wild for the characters or road trip thing yet, but I trust them to make the story draw the emotions out of me. Also, thumbs up for female Cid! I haven't bought a launch game in years, and I don't think this game will be the one to change that - but should it come at me for a reasonable price, I will 100% be buying it!

This was an interesting article to read; thanks for writing it up. :)
Thanks!
I love writing this kind of stuff smile some come out better than others.

I'do obviously be remiss if I didn't encourage you to play 6-9. 6 is usually the favorite of the hardcore classic fans, and 7 is favorite to a lot of people who started there. Obviously, if you get the new version of 7 with the boosting options don't use them the first time (unless you're grinding, maybe, though 7 is so well done that you're almost always proper level unless you run from a lot of battles).

I do hold that the XIII series in particular was much better than we gave it credit for. When put alongside almost any other Final Fantasy, it looks pretty terrible, but it all struck me as pretty solid by any other standard. I'do never call it great, but I think its shortcomings would have been far more easily forgivable if the game wasn't a main numbered entry but a spin-off.

Course, we'll never truly have any way of knowing that.
BlueSeptember17
Posted on 18 April 16 at 14:09, Edited on 18 April 16 at 14:10 by BlueSeptember17
I think another aspect of the greatness that was lost in XIII was the fun factor. In FF7, you could take a break at the Golden Saucer. In FF8, it was Triple Triad. FF9 had the chocobo digging, and FFX had Blitzball. I don't remember any such fun in XIII. And I quite agree with you that the battle system was a mess. Random battles took soooooo long. It drug the whole experience down.

I agree that X was the beginning of a change. The first time I played it, I couldn't decide if I liked it. Now, about twenty playthroughs later, it's probably my all-time favorite. It was with XII that I really started disliking the series, and I've been a fan for a very long time.

I'do obviously be remiss if I didn't encourage you to play 6-9.I would add 5 to the recommendation - love the job system in that game. I've also played 4, but it's a real grind.
Nobody but you...
Gaelic-_-Flame
Posted on 18 April 16 at 14:24, Edited on 18 April 16 at 14:26 by Gaelic-_-Flame
ExtremePhobia said:I'do obviously be remiss if I didn't encourage you to play 6-9. 6 is usually the favorite of the hardcore classic fans, and 7 is favorite to a lot of people who started there.I would also really recommend playing FF5 as well. Personally I like gameplay of 5 much more than 6, because job system is just amazing there, being able to "craft" your characters into anything you want. It's also a bit more cheerful and funny. Although story/character wise FF6 is better.

Harem-kamisama said:While not critically reaching those levels, in my opinion games like xenoblade chronicles, pandora's tower, last story, lost odyssey, tales of vesperia, persona 3-4 golden, disgaea 3-5, etc. live up to early FF games. Even non Japanese games like Child of Light have shined recently. Fire Emblem has also had a resurgence.
I would also add Legend of Heroes series to that. Especially Trails in the Sky. Those are just amazing!
Also just curious, but why Disgaea 3-5? Why no love for 1-2? cry Disgaea 2 was probably my favourite, although I might have been biased since it was my first Disgaea. 3 is definitely my least favourite though, I just didn't care about characters and setting that much, and gameplay was slightly downgraded in a few aspects compared to Disgaea 2.
Gaelic Flame - Hybrid created from Rathalos and Kushala Daora materials. Its cut is a death sentence
Harem-kamisama
Posted on 19 April 16 at 03:50
Gaelic-_-Flame said:ExtremePhobia said:I'do obviously be remiss if I didn't encourage you to play 6-9. 6 is usually the favorite of the hardcore classic fans, and 7 is favorite to a lot of people who started there.I would also really recommend playing FF5 as well. Personally I like gameplay of 5 much more than 6, because job system is just amazing there, being able to "craft" your characters into anything you want. It's also a bit more cheerful and funny. Although story/character wise FF6 is better.

Harem-kamisama said:While not critically reaching those levels, in my opinion games like xenoblade chronicles, pandora's tower, last story, lost odyssey, tales of vesperia, persona 3-4 golden, disgaea 3-5, etc. live up to early FF games. Even non Japanese games like Child of Light have shined recently. Fire Emblem has also had a resurgence.
I would also add Legend of Heroes series to that. Especially Trails in the Sky. Those are just amazing!
Also just curious, but why Disgaea 3-5? Why no love for 1-2? cry Disgaea 2 was probably my favourite, although I might have been biased since it was my first Disgaea. 3 is definitely my least favourite though, I just didn't care about characters and setting that much, and gameplay was slightly downgraded in a few aspects compared to Disgaea 2.
Lol I love Disgaea (the first one is in my top ten), and I loved D2 for bringing back the origianl cast, I just mentioned 3-5 because that was the ps3 era, and the focus was kind of on current gen rpgs.

Yeah Legend of Heroes is a quality series, and thank God we finally got some games on the consoles with Steel. I feel like there are many good jrpgs that get overlooked because a lot of people don't like handhelds.

Talking about classic series makes me miss Suikoden, my favorite series of all time.
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